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in any other language. It’s (the American version of English) less formal, than say, the British version of English, less formal than French; it’s a casual kind of language. And even made more casual by popular music lyrics and things like that. It’s kind of like, music kind of went the way of the English language- American popular music is the same way that it’s brought us to a more casual state. I mean, even think about church music now- that’s a good example of it. Pop music is totally come full circle and is in churches now, and you even hear people saying “it speaks to me more” and “I can get more involved in the worship because I understand the music, it’s my kind of music”- whereas, can you imagine, hoity-toity turn of the century people doing their very conservative versions of hymns, listening to that and just going “oh my gosh what has happened to the church”. A very important thing that jazz and popular music has done is brought our races together- particularly African American and white- because popular music came from a combination of European and African music. You know, out of this terrible conflict that we have that creates the civil war, and all that sort of thing, also creates some beautiful music. It’s kind of like, on the other side of the coin, racial tension versus the coming together of the people, creating music that is very, you know… more… popular. People are a lot more involved with music than any time in history. It’s kind of a casual kind of music, and it’s an extremely commercialist kind of music- just taking what sounds are associated with, say, a certain look or a certain dance or whatever. But uh…I don’t know, because it has good points and bad points- bringing people together, but also watering down real art. So that’s kind of thinking along the terms of popular music more in general… But jazz, specifically, I think it’s reached a very small segment of society, but I think for those people it does reach, it is a real American art form; that’s really, I would say, equivalent to the classical European tradition, as far as art’s sake. And I think, I really feel that, in a hundred years, a thousand years, that Louis Armstrong or Miles Davis will be in the same place as we hold people like Bach and Mozart. People back then, weren’t that aware either- Bach was considered kind of a rebellious church organist, they were like “why does he do all that weird stuff”; but to me, he’s the greatest composer of all time. My two favorite church musicians- John Coltrane and J.S. Bach.  But, anyway, is that enough answer on that? I think I can probably go on, but I’ll shut up.

SW: Next question… just like for the people during WWII, swing represented hope and a reminder of home, and for teens now-a-days music represents a kind of escape, what does jazz mean for you?

CM: Um, I think it’s reality. I don’t think it’s an escape at all- I think it’s dealing with what you know and what you can learn and what you can do, and how you feel, and what has happened to you, and how that’s affected you, what you want to do- I think it’s all those things in sounds, and actually, in the theory of it as well. But, it’s music about reality. I think that a lot of people… I think the escapism has a lot to do with the drug culture, which is totally a huge part of the jazz scene. But I’m more convinced that the drugs involved with jazz have to do with dealing with that reality and having difficulty accepting the reality that the music offers, and the life of a poor jazz musician who’s being creative and may not be received commercially. That reality is something to escape from; but the music itself is not an escape, it’s reality, head-on.